Meeting your Ego to Unlock Co-Creation & Collaboration with Eitan Sharir - PART ONE
Welcome to the We are Human Leaders podcast. Today is the first half of our conversation with Eitan Sharir of Dynamic Achievement as we deep dive into Ego and the role it plays in Leadership.
Eitan takes us on a deep dive into the process of understanding how our Ego impacts our thoughts and behavior - whether we are aware of it or not. He delivers practical tools and insight so we can truly embody a Co-Creator Mindset in our thoughts, words and actions at work and beyond.
Eitan Sharir is President of Organizational Culture and Performance at Dynamic Achievement. For more than 20 years, Eitan has worked with many leading organizations including: Starbucks, IKEA, Avis, ISM/IBM, Coca-Cola, Unilever, Mercedes Benz, and lululemon. To enable organizations to achieve the real, and sustainable business results they are looking for, Eitan applies The Co-Creation Activator Process which is an advanced approach unique to Dynamic Achievement. In addition to his consulting work, Eitan shares his knowledge and insights as a keynote speaker for association conferences and organizational retreats on how to Develop a Culture of Excellence in the areas of Culture, Leadership, Service Excellence and Teams. Eitan is the author of Activate Your Power – How to Unlock Your Full Potential and Direct Your Own Success.
Eitan holds a Bachelor of Commerce degree with a double major in business economics and economics, and a post-graduate commerce degree in general management and international marketing. He has also reached the Masters level in Neuro-Linguistic programming and is a certified Business Coach with the Behavioral Coach Institute.
This episode is candid, enlightening and uncomfortable, all in one! Welcome in, and enjoy.
This is the first half of this powerful conversation with Eitan Sharir, be sure to tune to part two where Alexis and Eitan dive deeper into imbuing egolessness into organisational cultures and the critical steps for doing so.
For full access to Eitan Sharir's work and ebooks, visit his website here.
To be a part of Human Leaders, join us in the Online Community for Leaders.
For accessible access, view the podcast with closed captions below and access the full conversation transcript.
Episode Transcript:
Spk0 Sally. Spk1 Alexis. Spk2 Eitan.
[00:00:00] spk_0: Welcome to the were human leaders podcast. I'm Sally Clarke, Co-Director at Human Leaders and today we've got a special episode as we go inside the human leaders community. For one of our expert led live sessions. Our live expert sessions are a core component of the human leaders experience as we curate the world's top thought leaders in the leadership space to educate and stimulate evolution for our leadership community. In this session, Alexis hosted 18 career of dynamic achievement to deep dive into Ego and the role it plays in leadership. This episode is candid enlightening and a little bit uncomfortable all in one. Welcome in and enjoy
[00:00:51] spk_1: welcome everyone to We are human leaders. Today we have an expert live session with eight on Sharia joining us from Canada and today's session we're going to be unpacking the ego, understanding it and how it impacts collaboration and safety in our organizations. So collaboration and co creation. These are words that many of us have actually heard but quite often we don't truly understand their anatomy and how we actually imbue these into our organizations. So we'll be really exploring and unpacking this concept today through the lens of leadership and the impact that we have. Either in cultivating collaboration and co creation or destroying them and sometimes unknowingly yeah so in a report published actually just yesterday by the M. I. T. Sloan management review titled orchestrating workforce ecosystems strategically managing work across and beyond organizational boundaries. They discussed the quickly shifting nature of our workforce to be moving away from the office and the typical full time employees structure to a more decentralized hybrid work called the workforce ecosystem. And this includes things like temporary workers, part time workers, contractual consultant workers and a myriad of other forms of employee arrangements. So in this report they speak to the power dynamic shift in organizations away from typical leadership control and more to a contribution model both from internal of the organization and now all of these external stakeholders that are part of the broader workforce ecosystem. This really begs the question for those of us in leadership, our our legacy processes and our our legacy mindsets capable of handling the shift towards the workforce ecosystem. As a leader who do we need to become to effectively manage workforce ecosystems. Reliant on contribution, collaboration and co creation of increasingly external humans in our in our workforce ecosystems. So today I'm delighted to be speaking with Eight and Sharia who's going to share with us how we can identify and overcome the ego trap that many leaders fall into when trying to drive collaboration and psychological safety in their organizations. So 18 calls this the for me creator trap and he's developed the co creation activator to help us overcome this. So a little bit about a tan, he's the president of organizational culture and performance at dynamic achievement. For more than 20 years. He's worked with leading organizations including Starbucks, ikea Avis, IBM coca cola. Unilever Mercedes Benz and lululemon to enable organizations to achieve the real and sustainable business results. they're looking for a town, applies the co creator activator process which is an advanced approach unique to dynamic achievement. So in addition to his consulting work, Aton shares his knowledge and insights as a keynote speaker for association conferences and organizational retreats on how to develop a culture of excellence in the area of culture, leadership, service, excellence and teams and also the author of activate your power how to unlock your potential and direct your own success. He holds a bachelor of commerce degree with a double major in business Economics and economics and a postgraduate commerce degree in general management and international marketing. He's also reached a master's level in neuro linguistic programming and is a certified business coach with the behavioral coach institute. So welcome to human leaders and we're so excited to be learning from you today. Um And let's get started then. So I'm gonna start with a question for you a 10 and it's one that I feel as human leaders and as humans first we always love diving into here and that is what actually started this process for you. Let's can we hear a little bit about your story and what brought you to develop their co creation activator.
[00:05:21] spk_2: Yeah, absolutely. So I've been consulting for over 25 years now. I started off in South Africa, you'll hear about my accent and when COVID started two years ago I was out of work for three months because all my clients had to figure out how to survive. So basically there was no training, no development. Um and and that was actually a blessing in disguise because it gave me time, it created space for me to start reflecting on the past 25 years and why some of my clients have been so successful in certain areas and why they haven't in other areas. And upon that reflection, I started to see the gaps, I started to see that there were certain areas that they were very good at, that helped them move to a certain level. But there were other areas, these same successful companies that they didn't do a great job. So they may well they could have been maybe very clear on strategy and everyone was clear on the plan, but the leadership wasn't strong enough or they had a good plan and strong leadership, but the rest of the team weren't fully engaged and fully aligned. So there was something and Those that reflection started to identify five key areas that if organizations focused on all five key areas, they would achieve excellence. And so that's how it started. And so I came up with this with my business partner and with this co creation activator, we gave it a label that has got five stages to it. The first one is co creation mission. We can talk about it a little bit later on. The second one was the co creation leader, how do leaders engage and influence co creation. The third stage is the vertical mindset installer, how to install this mindset for everyone in the organization. The fourth one is the Co creation Culture activator, how do we activate a culture of excellence? And the fifth one is what I call the super mind accelerator. It's taking co creation to another level altogether, so that's that's the story of the co creation activator, even that show?
[00:07:28] spk_1: Yeah, fantastic. Thank you for that. Just before we go further diving into the co creation activator, I wonder if we can just take a moment to look at these concepts and put some language to them a little more so, you know, many understand collaboration as the ability to work together towards the common purpose or goal. And I think quite often that word can be maybe used interchangeably with co creation. If people aren't fully aware of the difference in language there, can you explain a little bit for us the difference between collaboration and co creation and why you think maybe organizations should be focused on the later.
[00:08:01] spk_2: Yeah, I think I think this this room for both, um collaboration, I think we all know is there's a predetermined goal. We come together, we collaborate to achieve that goal. Okay, very clear. And and these rooms for that, we want that co creation in the way that I frame it is a different context and it's also a high level of awareness to collaboration. So this is a very important thing, There's a different context and a different level of awareness for the individuals that come together to co create. So when we come together to co create, there's no more me and there's no more you there's no more, my ones my likes my preferences, there's no more, I agree or disagree. There isn't that that's it's no longer the way that we think about coming together. So in a very simple term, co creation is Coming together as one as 1 mind to create and co create something that has never been created before. So there could be a set goal, but we are co creating something beyond that and achieving results that we have never achieved before. So once again co creation a different level of awareness for the individuals coming together as one thing which I call the super mind and we are pulling all of our resources, all of our experiences, all of our intellect, all of our creative creativity into one big mind that is co creation, it's very different. So if you just have a meeting and you call it co creation, it doesn't make a co creation, it's just another meeting.
[00:09:43] spk_1: I love this and I think it's really important for us because it helps us decide, you know, if our behavior is really in alignment with that. So for me, what I'm hearing is collaboration is really this idea that we show up as an individual with our skills with our abilities with the way that we work our preferences for work and you get to show up with your skills, your abilities, your preferences, your behaviors, and together we work towards a common purpose or a common outcome. But with co creation, we know perhaps that we have a mission, so we know we want to head in this general direction, but we're almost going to drop those boundaries and together create something bigger than ourselves that we might even not be able to conceive yet. Does that kind of sound like it's the difference between the two?
[00:10:29] spk_2: Absolutely, you nailed it and, you know, an example that I can use here, and this is it's a little bit out there, but I think I think it it explains it for for something that people have experienced, you know, when you fall in love, there's an experience of oneness in co creation, there's an experience of oneness, there's no more division and there's no more separation and it's it's like there's a magic, it's a magic space that we create together, where there's no ego and that's a big, big thing, there's no ego in the room for co creation to actually happen. And that's why it's not an easy thing to do.
[00:11:03] spk_1: I agree, and I would almost counter that organizations are set up so that that doesn't occur quite often because we, you know, we hire people based on skill sets and buy the things they can bring to the room so that they can really employ those parts of themselves to help us move towards a goal. So we almost need to counteract some of that thinking and and bring all of those parts of ourselves together, as you said, as like super mind.
[00:11:25] spk_2: Absolutely! Because because in the inner co creation or the super mind because which is basically when we co create, we become a super mind. We are all bringing everything of ourselves. You see, there's no, there's no suppression of anything, we're bringing everything of ourselves. But in an undivided way, I think that's the key thing. We are one thing, but all of our resources and all of our experiences and all of our creativity is pulled into that one thing. And that's why we move so much faster in towards anything that we are we are actually doing because there's no, I agree and disagree. Look, think about most meetings and all the noise and friction and egos that are happening in a lot of the meetings you don't have that, that's why things move much faster.
[00:12:13] spk_1: Incredible. Now, it sounds to me that psychological safety is an essential ingredient here to co creation and that creating the space, as you said, for people to be able to contribute to perhaps challenge each other safely to show up, as you said, integrated. So not showing up as the engineer or showing up as the marketing professional, but showing up as a human being to contribute. Sounds like there needs to be an underlying level of psychological safety for this to happen. And is this a key leadership function within that co creation model? The leaders need to be able to foster that to actually build co creation.
[00:12:51] spk_2: Very much so yes, they need to help create the space for us to be able to come there without having to worry about anything. There's no position, Al Itty, there's no authority in co creation, so it doesn't matter who's there. I mean the president can be, there makes no difference whatsoever in co creation. Everyone is 100% equal. Um So psychological safety is paramount to co creation, being able to happen in the first place. And the second thing, of course is having the right mindset of wanting to be in the space once again to create something beyond myself. So that's where leaders need to need to show up to create that environment in the first place.
[00:13:36] spk_1: Mhm. So I want to dive in. Now a tan into your work around what you call the for me create a trap and that this acts as a major barrier stopping organizations from really embracing this idea of co creation. Can you explain for me this for me, trap and share with us as a leader, what are some of the signs and symptoms that we might be operating from this for me create a trap
[00:14:05] spk_2: certainly. So the for me created trap is, um, where unfortunately most people are coming from, which is what's in it for me. And when you're working with a team and a lot of your energy is focused on what's in it. For me, you are not thinking that much about the others. So it's not about the we space the team, the organization, the customers. It's how am I going to further myself? So it's very much ego based. And again, I don't want I don't want us to to see ego as a negative or a bad thing. Ego is just identification with an attachment to my personal mind. That's all it is. It's not the villain and it's not the devil. It's none of these things. Okay. But personal personal mind, which is generally ego is driven by my preferences, my fears and insecurities my biases. So the for me create a trap is when the length through which I look at life and look at my work and look at my colleagues is what am I getting out of it? How can I get further ahead? How can I prove that I'm okay? How can I not feel bad and what that does? It causes a separation between us. It causes the vision and when, when we fall into the formal creator track, we cannot come together as one. So it's basically the antithesis of co creation of the super mind? Hmm,
[00:15:37] spk_1: right? And, you know, this idea of the ego, as you said, it is an innate part of us, you know, it's something that we've developed essentially as a protection mechanism as a child to keep us safe from the world around us. And as such, it's sort of this sneaky subconscious thing at times. And those of us, even with the best intentions quite often can't always identify where that's coming up. And do you find that eager rather leaders struggle to identify maybe where that ego is coming through in their work?
[00:16:10] spk_2: Absolutely, the less aware people are, the less away that they are even coming from ego that there is an eagle in them. So in order to be able to stop the ego and number one and then to transcend it go beyond it so that you can see it without it disturbing you. You have to be awake enough or aware enough or conscious enough to be able to say, oh, here's my ego, here's my ego, look at my hand here, here's my ego showing up. Here's my ego showing up, you know, to stimulating a feeling, here's my ego coming up with thoughts, I'm not good enough, I'm special or whatever it is. It's only when you start to observe the ego from a meta cognition perspective from the prefrontal cortex, part of our brain that is able to disassociate from me, the experiencer that you can start the actual work of freeing yourself from the ego. But for as long as you're coming from ego, most people are not aware enough that ego is operating through them. That the lens through which they look at life is ego.
[00:17:16] spk_1: Yeah. Gosh. And it's a difficult thing and I want to start with then for people listening, what's the first step as a leader that we can take, shifting from what you call the for me to the fore we or that true sense of co creation in an organization. Where do we start?
[00:17:33] spk_2: Great question. I think that the first step is um starting with the mindset of I don't already know it. Mm Okay, I don't already know it because you see the ego always wants to prove that it already knows it. It doesn't matter what it actually is, but it always knows it. I know I figured it out. I'm no because not already knowing for the ego is a sign of weakness is a sign of fear is a sign of annihilation and the ego will do everything to survive. So in order to survive, the ego needs, an enemy needs the other needs a division needs to be better than needs to win. So coming from a mindset of, I don't already know it, even though I know a lot of things, but a mindset of I don't already know it creates the opening for me to be able to be more interested, more curious and then there's a chance that I will start to see that ego is operating in my life, the ego that doesn't stop talking to me. The ego that doesn't stop
[00:18:46] spk_1: preferring
[00:18:46] spk_2: preferring. I like I don't like I agree, I disagree, I'm better than I'm worse than so, so that is that is the first step and it's a very big step because when people have got a big ego, the last thing that they will do is coming from, I don't already know it because they have to prove that they already know it. So that's that's the first part of the practice.
[00:19:08] spk_1: Yeah. And I imagine that for those of us who might not have created the space or allowed ourselves an opportunity to dive into that before witnessing that ego for the first time, it's going to feel very, very uncomfortable. And do you think that it's something that we're able to do by ourselves, or do you think it's something that there's space to be supported by others or perhaps have someone guide us in a way of witnessing maybe where that might be showing up in our decision making and things like that?
[00:19:36] spk_2: So the answer is yes and yes. Can you, can we do it on our own? Yes. We can. It depends depends on where you're at right now in relation to your awareness, how what is your level of current awareness, If it's a little bit more aware, you can do a lot of it on your own, but if you're not really and most people are not really okay, there's a scale here, we're not gonna go through it right now then having someone act as your mirror is invaluable and and that someone Alexis, this is very important is someone that you trust that they really care for your well being, because when the mirror is put in front of us, the ego freaks out and remember the ego will do everything to survive, which leads that the eagle often lashes back, you don't know what you're talking about, even if it's your lover, your partner, your whatever you wanna call them. So there has to be a very high degree of trust with another person for them for you to be willing to allow them to say in a very gentle way Alexis, is this your ego talking right now? And basically it's just the mirror, it's got nothing to do with me. And and if if if you are courageous enough to be able to do that then there's hope for you to be able to do the work and free yourself from the ego, otherwise sorry, forget about it, you will die with your ego inside you and you wouldn't have transcended it, you haven't you wouldn't have liberated or free yourself from the ego because you're not willing to do the work required,
[00:21:12] spk_1: I resonate with this feeling of uncomfortable Itty so much and I recall in my very first leadership role working with the team the first time I received feedback that my goodness, it felt so uncomfortable to my ego and again, it was just this idea that my intentionality wasn't in fact the impact I was having and although I felt internally that I had the best intentions, I just wasn't aware that there was still this underlying protection mechanism happening um by my ego that was really stopping me to move beyond some of those, you know, need to control small details or whatever the case might be. And the first time that Mirror got held up to me, it was super, it was super uncomfortable and I think as you said, the ego will then kind of create excuses or mitigate that feeling of uncomfortable Itty by creating again more excuses or more layers to not have to face itself. And I think coming back to your point earlier about being able to dive into the ego with curiosity, to self witness, I think they're all, there has to be that ability to approach feedback with a real curiosity as well and witness when it feels like we're under attack in that scenario to do you find that's the case
[00:22:26] spk_2: very much so and I just want to point something Alexis because I think this is really important as an observation, the language that you're using, he's perfect because what you said is my ego felt uncomfortable. My ego was saying you see about, but just merely speaking like that you are disassociating from the ego, you're talking about this thing. Yes, it's part of me, but you're talking about it instead of I felt can you see now that's already a step up, Okay. From from being identified with it. Now the ultimate level is okay. My ego is doing fear, okay, my ego is doing freaking out. Just that language creates an even greater separation, but the way that you use in it is great. Um I think that observation is one of the most important things and when people are really committed to doing this work of freeing yourself from the ego and being able to be that leader that we're talking about with incredible capacity to deal with stuff as life is full of stuff. Um what what is, what is required is the courage two to see it for what it is and and and and I know this is so challenging but to stop personalizing every experience that I have and every thought that I have and every feeling that I have and make it my unique, special me because that's where the ego comes in. Can you see? So I think that's where that's where we can do the work all of us as leaders to be willing to be courageous enough to take feedback and see it as feedback and not failure because he's no failure. There's only feedback and when we see something as failure is because we've got attached to the outcome and identified with the outcome and believed that when we achieve this then we will be that. And that is the trap of the ego.
[00:24:30] spk_1: I appreciate that so much. And this idea of creating space between ourselves and the ego I think is really empowering because we're able to step back as you said and disassociate ourselves from outcomes so that we can actually approach things from a learning and from a curiosity perspective, knowing that the result isn't indicative of who we are as a person, it's just our egos reaction to the perception of that.
[00:24:57] spk_0: We hope you enjoyed the first half of this powerful conversation with Aidan Sharia. Be sure to tune into Part two when Alexis and Aiden died deeper into imbuing eagerness nus into organizational cultures and the critical steps to getting there. See you next time.